| -->| | anarcat (n=anarcat@pdpc/supporter/active/anarcat) has joined #drupalpros |
| kitt | so, when we mute, does everyone else get the BeeP! ? |
| anarcat | hey folks |
| =-= | obicke has changed the topic to “Drupal_Shop_Conference_Call_Back_Channel 319-256-0200 199192#” |
| anarcat | another koumbit guy here, not on the conf though, sitting next to obicke :) |
| obicke | I hope that it is ok that I put that there. |
| obicke | that there >> number in topic |
| -->| | kaliya (n=kaliya@dsl092-013-078.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #drupalpros |
| kaliya | HI everyone :) |
| anarcat | hi kaliya, i'm antoine |
| anarcat | ... from koumbit, i think we met at recentchanges |
| kaliya | hi yes :) |
| anarcat | we had that dinner about the Commons... |
| anarcat | right :) |
| anarcat | hello :) |
| kitt | wow! |
| obicke | it is normal that Im on hold? |
| kitt | I want to skip my intro. |
| kitt | I sound like a dork. |
| kitt | :\ |
| -->| | drob (n=dan@c-67-160-223-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #drupalpros |
| drob | i'm on |
| drob | dan from CA here |
| GregoryHeller | just 6
|
| drob | kieran is on irc (amazon??) |
| -->| | ericg_ (n=chatzill@dsl092-172-075.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #drupalpros |
| Amazon | I am here |
| GregoryHeller | Hi kieran |
| Amazon | I can here the call |
| Amazon | Hi GregoryHeller |
| pingv | when the time comes, how to un-mute? |
| kitt | 6 again |
| pingv | (that was not my noise, btw) |
| pingv | ty |
| kitt | it'll take about 3 seconds as the message says it's unmuted, so plan ahead. ;) |
| kitt | what are all the dings? |
| drob | people coming and going |
| kitt | including muting? Ugh. |
| pingv | dings, not pings ;) |
| kitt | I think I'm muted... |
| kaliya | you can change the settings. |
| kaliya | next time don't put the chimes on |
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| nonecknoel | hi kids... |
| drob | hey noel |
| nonecknoel | hello doctor! |
| anarcat | waves to the conference people :) |
| -->| | rorris (n=rorris@cpe-69-205-62-185.nycap.res.rr.com) has joined #drupalpros |
| GregoryHeller | rorris are you on the call? or just lurking on the back channel? |
| rorris | just got on |
| GregoryHeller | coopatition |
| nonecknoel | yeah baby it's all about coopatition! |
| drob | it's all about buzzwords |
| nonecknoel | i have a spime for ya then. |
| GregoryHeller | reverse
bounty systems and what folks are doing on documentation (and
contribution back), hearing how people are going about reducing
duplication of code and working on client timelines and how that
affects development timelines and cooperation |
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| strudeau | I believe the spelling is coopetition (cooperation / competition) |
| strudeau | :P |
| m3avrck | should i still call in? i'm interested in listening but have no ajenda |
| drob | sure |
| m3avrck | i also can't spell adjenda :-) |
| drob | more the merrier |
| drob | all the more reason to connect via phone |
| drob | noone can see your spelling |
| GregoryHeller | DavidG:
online grants management system: programs and tasks: workfdlow
gathering information and analyzing it (coming out in version 1.6) |
| nonecknoel | i support that! |
| GregoryHeller | Kaliya:
ecology of qualified developers to expand so that when i need them i
can hire them. Tired of being the referral system, wants a directory.
|
| ericg_ | Ted |
| AaronPava | kitt what's your company's url? |
| zacker | thats ted |
| nonecknoel | m3avrick speak up on the phone |
| kitt | AaronPava: http://codingclan.com/ |
| kitt | just a splash right now. |
| zacker | nice kitt |
| strudeau | basically: we're just seeing what y'all are up to |
| m3avrck | i haven't cvalled in yet |
| m3avrck | was getting my phone, hah! |
| strudeau | maybe we want to hire you; maybe we want to quit our jobs and join you; in any case, we want to be connected to the community. ;) |
| m3avrck | ok i'm in |
| m3avrck | or on the phone |
| nonecknoel | noneck agrees with strudeau |
| drob | kitt: just hit your url - Name-based virtual host, please try by FQDN.... |
| kaliya | woohoo |
| kaliya | that sounds fantastic |
| m3avrck | who's speaking right now? |
| GregoryHeller | Laura Scott |
| m3avrck | ah ok |
| pingv | pingVision |
| kitt | drob: D'oh, I hate that. Made me look like an idiot. |
| drob | nah |
| drob | happens to all of us |
| kitt | I blame my biz partner who set up the site. |
| drob | you'd rather hear it from friends right? |
| kitt | ;) |
| drob | lol |
| kitt | Ted! |
| m3avrck | hi! |
| GregoryHeller | http://home.civicactions.net/drupal/drupalpros/ |
| AaronPava | who was the last introduction - missed you (taking notes) |
| obicke | I like boriss' suggestion that we call this "marketplace" rather then "pros" |
| nonecknoel | good one... |
| ericg_ | nice site gregory |
| strudeau | still likes Guild |
| obicke | AaronPava: it was ted aka m3avrck |
| kitt | drob: voila! Thanks for the heads up. |
| strudeau | likes the drop with a tie |
| m3avrck | agrees |
| nonecknoel | isn't the guild just the way pros work their way up the ladder? |
| Amazon | hand |
| m3avrck | raises hand |
| nonecknoel | hand |
| obicke | raises hand |
| obicke | lowers hand... agrees with Amazon |
| m3avrck | yup |
| geilhufe | +1 for Amazon |
| zacker | + 1 for amazon |
| kitt | That limits people who do work that can't be contributed. |
| Amazon | No |
| kitt | I do a TON of custom work that isn't contributed. |
| nonecknoel | can they buy in? |
| Amazon | I mean you can point to sites |
| Amazon | but if you look at some of the programming marketplaces |
| kitt | I don't think an ultimate frisbee online rostering system is going to be useful. |
| kaliya | we
should have a section that helps explain open source processes and how
you understand them...for newbies (the target audience) |
| Amazon | they don't point to past work |
| zacker | kitt: you'd be surprised :/ |
| obicke | raises hand again |
| Amazon | kitt: you could point to your sites |
| Amazon | but in other marketplaces it's all reputation based |
| kitt | Amazon: but that's not contribution/theme based. |
| Amazon | and that get's gamed very quickly |
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| kitt | which was your point? |
| Amazon | I mentioned sites as well |
| kitt | sorry, missed that |
| Amazon | I see your dilema |
| pingv | testimonials? |
| kitt | endorsements? |
| Amazon | I'll give an example |
| Amazon | someone just paid for a Drupal 4.7 installer to be built |
| Amazon | it was done by a shop in India who was the lowest bidder |
| Amazon | they copied the CivicSpace installer |
| obicke | nonecknoel: is next |
| Amazon | they had a 400 endorsement |
| kitt | Amazon: punks. |
| pingv | directory could feature testimonials / ratings / rep mgmt a la LinkedIn |
| Amazon | with Drupal you can just point to a site |
| Amazon | and people will get it |
| pingv | But how to avoid spammers on directory? |
| strudeau | thinks the process to get listed should have some rigor to it |
| kitt | pingv: constant vigilance! (to quote harry potter) |
| pingv | transparency is key |
| strudeau | also thinks concerns about not being on drupal.org is overblown; but it would be nice if they would link to it as dan describes |
| pingv | to avoid the "why did I get rejected?" problem |
| kitt | might have contributors get bonus points for endorsement. |
| obicke | +1 for testimonials... feedback on experience... kinda ebay like |
| ericg_ | that is what client references are for |
| m3avrck | agreed |
| pingv | who's talking? |
| nonecknoel | dan |
| GregoryHeller | dan |
| m3avrck | that along with a posted skillset / example sites / contributsion / etc |
| GregoryHeller | drob |
| pingv | ty |
| GregoryHeller | that's dan |
| ericg_ | exactly |
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| GregoryHeller | reputation systems are very tricky. we started by saying we were picking off low hanging fruit |
| nonecknoel | yeah, and he's on your team ;) |
| Amazon | http://drupal.org/user/track |
| rorris | amazon: i get a 404 |
| Amazon | yeah, sorry |
| Amazon | getting the right one |
| pingv | that seems inwardly focused, to be honest |
| Amazon | http://drupal.org/user/ |
| kitt | then how do you get in? |
| obicke | hand |
| m3avrck | how do you rate these 2 hypothetical developers: iserABC contributes multiple APIs to core, userXYZ *only* contributes theme work but it's awesome |
| kitt | if you're new, you don't get endorsements. |
| geilhufe | +1 omar |
| m3avrck | obviously one will rate higher than the other but depends on the circumstances |
| pingv | if you don't go to conferences, you don't know developers |
| drob | +1 omar |
| Amazon | I think we could create a Drupal group on linkedin |
| Amazon | and have someone review it |
| pingv | +1 |
| strudeau | hand |
| <--| | rorris has left #drupalpros |
| pingv | open review of existing portfolio? |
| GregoryHeller | What happens to "AAA Drupal Shop" who shows up on top but is some kid with no experience and no clients |
| ericg_ | zacker - What was wrong with the CivicSpace listing system? How did you guys go about putting that togetehr? ANy advice? http://civicspacelabs.org/home/community/services |
| m3avrck | they can't get higher up unless they get positive reviews of their work, along with a linked profile of skills, sites, etc... |
| geilhufe | hand |
| zacker | ericg: do you mean - why don't we use that going forward? |
| zacker | it is just a book page |
| zacker | its a simple easy solution for he time being |
| ericg_ | right - but how did you choose who went up there? |
| zacker | but
i think we really need to get more data into the system and give a way
for shops to feature the sites they make + their community contributions |
| zacker | it's open eric |
| Amazon | It needs to be a couple of links |
| Amazon | one for documentation |
| zacker | anyone can make a book page and put it on the list |
| strudeau | thinks
this should be a somewhat exclusive group and it's ok for it to not
live on drupal.org ... so long as the criteria for getting listed is
fair and public, who cares? |
| Amazon | one for issues |
| Amazon | one for code |
| GregoryHeller | +1 geilhufe |
| kitt | grrr.... phone. :\ |
| drob | strudeau: in general pulling the community together is better than pulling apart |
| drob | strudeau: i don't think we should be exclusive at all |
| Amazon | http://drupal.org/drupal-services |
| drob | hand |
| strudeau | I'd like to exclude spammers |
| strudeau | and rip off artists |
| strudeau | if that's ok |
| pingv | yes -- past work evidence seems to be requirement |
| Amazon | People interested in giving guidance to customers can help with this page: http://drupal.org/node/51169 |
| pingv | Is the CivicSpace consultants book a model to look at? |
| drob | GregoryHeller: can you turn on forums and/or blogs? |
| Amazon | I think you'll get a lot of buyin |
| GregoryHeller | drop yes
|
| Amazon | if you say it's being prototyped |
| Amazon | to be moved to drupal.org |
| pingv | there was paper noise |
| pingv | project = DrupalCamp? |
| Amazon | and then it might take a few months to get everyone happy |
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| pingv | on the directory? |
| pingv | did we c hange topic or not? |
| pingv | ty |
| pingv | I can help |
| kaliya | it is really important not to expect normal people just figuring out if they want to hire someone wade through drupal.org |
| kaliya | we need a clean easy to access site - that highlights the best shops and develoeprs |
| Amazon | I think you will find that Drupal.org is willing to change |
| Amazon | if there is commitment to see it through |
| kaliya | it is not about drupal.org 'changing' |
| strudeau | agrees with kaliya |
| m3avrck | ideal drupal.org would be when you first click ”' developers go here ' ' end users go here ' ... .just 2 big buttons to seperate it out |
| GregoryHeller | http://www.drupal-camp.org
|
| zacker | hand |
| kaliya | it is about meeting market need to have a clean 'market accessable' portal for 'board members or other decision making folks. |
| Amazon | kaliya: that could be on the drupal.org homepage |
| Amazon | or in a drupal.org subdomain |
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| Amazon | marketplace.drupal.org |
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| nonecknoel | noneck agrees with zacker |
| kaliya | look Kieran the site is 'scarry' if you are not supre computer literate and comfie with this stuff |
| sechrest | hand |
| pingv | i want to attend if I can |
| nonecknoel | nyc or sf? |
| Amazon | kaliya: it can change |
| AaronPava | yes |
| strudeau | doesn't understand why this should be part of drupal.org; or why it matters |
| kitt | nonecknoel: travelling! |
| kaliya | drupal.org is a developer site for developers |
| Amazon | strudeau: forking is painful |
| kaliya | it needs to stay that way |
| Amazon | kaliya: that's your opinion |
| strudeau | doesn't understand why this is forking |
| zacker | hand |
| kaliya | it does not need to change |
| obicke | hand |
| pingv | It's a UI issue |
| kaliya | what
is needed is something way less scary and accessable for people who are
not geeky at all to find out about developer shops and developers |
| pingv | DrupalCamp question: What is the planned cost? |
| GregoryHeller | you next zack |
| kaliya | make something clean like the proptotype that Gregory showed us |
| GregoryHeller | pingv: we are talking about $500 for the weekend in bay area april |
| Amazon | as a sub-site of drupal.org |
| GregoryHeller | amazon: professionals.drupal.org |
| Amazon | yep |
| GregoryHeller | with the domain drupalpros.org .com resolving to it |
| Amazon | yep |
| kaliya | i don't care whre it is - it should likely have a redirect from a non-drupal.org site or somethign |
| pingv | a syllabus would help people choose whether to go |
| nonecknoel | how about camp.drupal.org? ;) |
| kaliya | ok. |
| kaliya | if you want people to pay you need to have a good curiculum. |
| GregoryHeller | and yes camp.drupal.org
there are technical issues about code base and instances |
| kaliya | and proven teachers |
| GregoryHeller | we are also talking about limiteing to 12 to 15 people |
| pingv | +1 kaliya |
| nonecknoel | that's just for sf. |
| nonecknoel | hand |
| GregoryHeller | we want people who are willing to make an investment |
| AaronPava | hand |
| Amazon | contributions == credibility |
| pingv | I would invest ... if I knew the syllabus (what's covered) and who's teaching ... like a University's course listing |
| geilhufe | hand |
| GregoryHeller | there will be an announces cillibus and instricutrs
|
| drob | Drupal U! |
| GregoryHeller | aaron next |
| obicke | Koumbit provides two levels of training... newbie (long curriculum) and advanced (short)... neither is "accredited" |
| strudeau | nods in agreement with geilhufe |
| nonecknoel | geilhufe yes.... |
| pingv | +1 |
| zacker | +1 |
| GregoryHeller | +1 geilhufe |
| zacker | i got to drop off in a sec |
| GregoryHeller | ok, any parting thoughts zacker |
| zacker | sue |
| zacker | hand |
| nonecknoel | yes, i am one of them; |
| Amazon | PHP programmers are readily available |
| nonecknoel | i am not in disagreement. |
| GregoryHeller | and css folks too. and people who have hacked together their own cmss too |
| GregoryHeller | but we want to convert those people into drupal developer |
| Amazon | well with 370 modules |
| Amazon | in 4.6 |
| pingv | I want both! |
| Amazon | there's a lot of collaborative potential that's not being met |
| pingv | amazon - yes! |
| GregoryHeller | DrupalCamp: "drink beer. learn drupal" |
| sechrest | hand |
| nonecknoel | AH, beer... |
| pingv | Drupal Wine Tasting in Napa? |
| m3avrck | i'm there |
| sechrest | hand |
| Amazon | See event management: http://drupal.org/node/50287 there's so much potential there |
| pingv | suggested topics for DrupalCamp |
| pingv | drupal-camp.org seems empty -- should we do prelim work there? |
| kaliya | Event management needs some consolidation... |
| pingv | and a new module that duplicates many of these tasks, not so? |
| obicke | +1 |
| pingv | who's clacking? |
| kaliya | hey Ping Vision what is your e-mail? |
| pingv | laura at pingv.com |
| pingv | ty |
| pingv | :D |
| obicke | hand |
| Amazon | obicke: drop me an email |
| GregoryHeller | other hands |
| Amazon | kieran at civicspacelabs dot org |
| geilhufe | +1 on bug fixing! |
| pingv | my big barrier right now: getting CVS to work (not Drupal cvs, just cvs) |
| Amazon | pingv: it's a real problem |
| geilhufe | hand |
| Amazon | hand |
| pingv | leveraged return on effort |
| obicke | Amazon: will do |
| pingv | bug fixing is like seed money that stimulates other donations |
| GregoryHeller | amazon i see your hand |
| geilhufe | code=rule=control= fundamentally un-open source. |
| geilhufe | "talk is silver code is gold" |
| drob | hand |
| GregoryHeller | "explaing the drupal community to your customers" |
| GregoryHeller | +1 |
| geilhufe | code needs to be something broader, of course. :) |
| GregoryHeller | replace code with "contributions" code, theme, documetnation, install profiles |
| obicke | one
limitation I have experienced the barrier for people to get CVS
accounts... I have new coders coming on board but aren't always able to
get CVS accounts in a timely easy fashion |
| GregoryHeller | amazon says: make the consulting list valuable |
| pingv | ty |
| kaliya | everyone building sites is contributing - they are expanding the install base |
| geilhufe | +1 dan |
| GregoryHeller | +1 kaliya |
| GregoryHeller | +1 dan |
| sechrest | +1 - agree that people can contribute without code |
| Amazon | it's a tension |
| GregoryHeller | using drupal, installing drupal, is a contribution |
| obicke | I have to admit that I tend to agree with Dan - that there is a psychological barrier here |
| kaliya | there is a huge opportunity to figure out how to have something cohsive emerge out of the plethora of event moduels |
| kaliya | that is a social 'problem' that needs some other skills to help be better other then just coding |
| Amazon | I think that stemmed from the sense of exclusion |
| drob | some people think this meeting is anathema |
| drob | Amazon: i disagree |
| kaliya | well if you do then don't be here |
| pingv | THe culture of Drupal usage and interactive web is a contributor in itself |
| drob | Amazon: although it contributed |
| drob | Amazon: but there is a strong thread of "if you aren't a coder you don't belong" |
| sechrest | hand |
| Amazon | my opinion is that the consulting list is currently going through a storming and forming |
| drob | that's certainly the case |
| Amazon | much list the documentation list did about 10-11 months ago |
| GregoryHeller | +1sechrest |
| Amazon | and we need to respect that process |
| Amazon | as a natural tension and resolution |
| Amazon | but if make the list valuable |
| Amazon | then it will go away |
| drob | exactly |
| Amazon | much like the docs list made a lot of valuable documentation |
| Amazon | the consulting list can drive millions in business in my opinion |
| Amazon | collaboration, |
| Amazon | partnering, effectiveness |
| pingv | ? |
| pingv | Boulder! |
| sechrest | +1 - agree on staking out value creation |
| pingv | Client-driven dev could be nurtured yes +1 |
| sechrest | +1 |
| kaliya | sounds good |
| Amazon | yes! |
| pingv | +1 |
| Amazon | yes, to moving on |
| GregoryHeller | on
thing that some of us talked about was creating a pool of aprentices
who "pay their dues" by working the "help desk" for a certain amount of
time a week |
| GregoryHeller | the help desk staff could escalate support issues to the approriate shop when necessary |
| GregoryHeller | we could use asterisk server |
| sechrest | collaborative support across several companies with a shared help desk? |
| pingv | meaning several "shops" form a collective tech support pool? |
| kitt | bah. Need to leave. say important stuff when I'm gone. :\ |
| GregoryHeller | sechrest that was what we talked about |
| sechrest | What is the revenue model? |
| sechrest | hand |
| Amazon | we could do a semi-private IRC room |
| pingv | support is not an entry level position |
| pingv | I would be loath to leave our clients to un-vetted support |
| strudeau | thinks Gregory is already starting to sound more "west coast" |
| ericg_ | http://www.developmentseed.org/docs/ |
| GregoryHeller | the sun just came out here in seattle, i gotta go! |
| pingv | don't blink, gregory |
| sechrest | as
someone who started an ISP and ran a help desk for 7 years, it is not
simple to do that well or right. And I think the shared phone system
would take some serious thinking |
| |<-- | zacker has left irc.freenode.net () |
| GregoryHeller | sechrest
have you read about speakfreely (i think?) deployment of asterisk that
pairs callers with operators in a totalyl distributed fashion and
allows operators to patch in translators |
| pingv | first thing i do is install box gray |
| pingv | this seems to be harder than the camp |
| pingv | or the pros directory |
| GregoryHeller | i think it is way harder pingv |
| pingv | this could be a business venture opportunity -- a 24/7 drupal phone support group |
| pingv | foss may not be up to this support idea |
| drob | lol |
| kaliya | didn't they do a contract with BRYGHT? |
| sechrest | shared support -> paying on a per ticket basis. |
| GregoryHeller | sorry dan! |
| kaliya | exclusively |
| drob | GregoryHeller: ?? |
| pingv | yes and yes |
| pingv | this is a good thing |
| obicke | hand |
| sechrest | It is good |
| nonecknoel | good things |
| pingv | we covered a lot today |
| pingv | did darth vader join the call? |
| nonecknoel | that's gregory |
| pingv | right, vancouver is far |
| drob | hand |
| kaliya | showing up counts in every community :) but we could do more to have local meetups |
| kaliya | that would help folks know other folks |
| pingv | +1 |
| GregoryHeller | kaliya: there are more and more of these meetings |
| GregoryHeller | we need a way to promote them better on drupal.org |
| GregoryHeller | and organize them |
| kaliya | twinkles |
| nonecknoel | drob, poor guy couldn't make it to oakland instead he was in nyc ;( |
| pingv | what about events on drupal.org? |
| GregoryHeller | +1 dan |
| drob | yeah ny kinda sucks |
| pingv | events module? |
| drob | very provincial |
| pingv | when not with clients |
| pingv | :D |
| sechrest | a little later is better |
| nonecknoel | yes |
| ericg_ | y - DC meetup 160 characters and $280 dollars – ordering beer via SMS http://www.developmentseed.org/blog/node/404 :) |
| drob | yes |
| pingv | not evening, though |
| AaronPava | yes |
| pingv | ok |
| geilhufe | monthly +1 |
| sechrest | ok |
| pingv | so shall we follow up on these websites linked today? |
| obicke | that's
a good example... I don't even have the permissions to create a poste
on Drupal.org ... how can I get my Montreal Drupal meetup on drupal.org |
| sechrest | consistant time is better than moving it around |
| obicke | ? |
| pingv | thank you for doing this |
| obicke | THANKS |
| geilhufe | already posted to drupal-camp.org on problem sets.... comments would be welcome. |
| sechrest | where are the refactored minutes going to be? |
| nonecknoel | ditto. |
| ericg_ | Thank you Gregory |
| GregoryHeller | http://home.civicactions.net/drupal/drupalpros/ |
| geilhufe | Great job Gregory! |
| sechrest | thank you. |
| AaronPava | Thanks Gregory! |
| pingv | thank you!! |
| drob | thanks! |
| m3avrck | thanks! |
| pingv | bye everyone |
| obicke | Ciao folks! |
| sechrest | bye |
| pingv | see you on the emails |
| obicke | :-) |
| kaliya | bye |
| drob | kisses.... |
| nonecknoel | MWAH |
| AaronPava | let the dings do the goodbyes |
| <--| | m3avrck has left #drupalpros |
| kaliya | you rock Gergory |
| drob | ding |
| GregoryHeller | awww shucks |
| |<-- | strudeau has left irc.freenode.net () |
| <--| | nonecknoel has left #drupalpros |
| obicke | well then ding! |
| <--| | obicke has left #drupalpros |
| kaliya | how was the music exit |
| GregoryHeller | nice |
| <--| | ericg_ has left #drupalpros |
| GregoryHeller | too bad everyone can't have their own tone |
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| -->| | obicke (n=Omboy@cmo.uqam.ca) has joined #drupalpros |